Thursday, February 24, 2011

Have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed?


 Jesus breathed upon His disciples and said "receive ye the Holy Ghost" (Jn 20:21-23) herein they were given the power to remit and retain sins. The breath of God which is Jesus Christ the Word made flesh breathed "on" His disciples and sent them forth in the power of the Holy Ghost. On the day of Pentecost the Breath of God (Acts 1:5,8, Acts 2:1-39) came into the room as a sound of a mighty rushing wind and there appeared unto them cloven tongues, like as of fire and sat upon each of them and they were all "filled" with the Holy Ghost and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. They were all "filled" with the "Word of God" and went forth in the power of the Holy Ghost and spoke in different languages so that all would hear the saving Word of God (Jesus and Him crucified, resurrected and coming again)! It was also at this point that Peter said to them: Repent and be baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the "Gift of the Holy Ghost"(Greek 4151 blast, breath, breeze, air) for the promise (Acts 2: 38-39) is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off (that would include us), even as many as the Lord our God shall call (this also would include us). And many wonders and signs were done by the Apostles. The Promise, The Gift of the Holy Spirit that Peter is referring to here is the Word/Breath (Greek 4151) of God (Jesus) via the Holy Spirit has been planted into the hearts of each one. Faith has been planted in each heart after hearing the Gospel to believe, repent and be baptized (baptism unto repentance) in the Name of Jesus! Thus the beginnings of our faith so as to be "saved". That is where most people stop. By faith and the grace of God I am saved, I have been forgiven and I will make heaven my home. The end.


I do not want to diminish the miracle of saving faith and the grace of God. A "changed" heart is the greatest miracle of all but should it be just for the sole purpose of salvation and eternity and nothing more? What about operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit for here and now? Eternal salvation has been taken care of but Paul speaks of the gifts of the Spirit as well. The gifts of the Spirit in operation is essential for us today.


The gift of the Holy Spirit (operating in the gifts of the Holy Spirit) is not for today many will say. I will have to strongly disagree with such a statement. And here's why:


When the Apostles head off to Samaria word has it that the people there have already received the Word of God and were baptized with water in the name of the Lord but they had not yet received the Holy Ghost. They believed and accepted the Word of Jesus and was baptized in His name but they had not received His Holy Spirit yet (Acts 8:14-17). At that time the Apostles laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Ghost. Correct me if I'm wrong but Isn't the popular teaching out there that when you repent and are baptized and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ that you automatically receive the Holy Spirit? If so then why does Paul ask this question? (Acts 19) Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on Him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied (wow! they seem to be operating in the gifts of the Spirit here) They weren't doing this before when they only believed.


(Acts 10:44-48) While Peter yet spoke these words The Holy Ghost fell upon all of them (Gentiles) which heard the Word, so also upon the Gentiles was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost and they also began to speak with tongues and magnify God, and "then" they were baptized with water in the name of the Lord (ah.. this time the Gift of the Holy Spirit came first and then the baptism with water in the name of Jesus unto salvation came second. (Acts 11:15-17) And as Peter began to speak the Holy Ghost fell on them (Gentiles) as on us (the Apostles) at the "beginning" (still going beyond the Apostles here). Then Peter remembered the Word of the Lord, how that he (the Lord) said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Forasmuch then as God gave Peter and the others the like "gift", who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was Peter that he could withstand God (Acts 11:15-17)? You gotta be kidding, the Gentiles are operating in the gift of the Spirit just as the Apostles? They were baptized with water unto repentance in the name of Jesus and they were also baptized with the Holy Ghost? Evidently it doesn't stop with the baptism of repentance/salvation, there's this extra receiving the Holy Spirit gift thing going on.
How does one know if he has received the Holy Spirit since he has believed? Well now that we have established that believing and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit are two different things let's take a look at God's Word and see how one can know. Tongues, Prophesying, Speaking the Word of God with Boldness is all evidence of receiving the Holy Ghost and also according to Apostle Paul in (1 Cor. 12: 7-11 Amp.) here is the manifested presence of the Holy Spirit in ones life: For to one is given in and through the Holy Spirit the power to speak a message of wisdom, and to another the power to express a word of knowledge and understanding according to the same Holy Spirit. To another wonder working faith by the same Spirit. To another extraordinary powers of healing by the same Spirit. To another the working of miracles, to another prophetic insight (the gift of interpreting the devine will and purpose); to another the ability to discern and distinguish between the utterance of true spirits and false ones, to another various kinds of unknown tongues, to another the ability to interpret such tongues. All these gifts, achievements, abilities are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same Holy Spirit, who apportions to each person individually exactly as He chooses. So, if you are a special messenger then you would be considered an Apostle, If you are an inspired preacher, expounder then you are a Prophet of God. Some are teachers, some are wonder workers, some are the healers with the gift of healing, others are helpers, administrators, speakers in different unknown tongues (1 Cor. 12:28 Amp.). So with that said, I would say that receiving the Holy Ghost is very much for today and desperately needed in the body of Christ so as we can be about our Father's business.


So now I will ask you, have you received the Holy Ghost since you have believed/Are you operating in the gifts of the Spirit? If your answer is no or even I don't know but you desire to receive the Holy Spirit here is what you must do. First you must whole-heartily open your heart and humble yourself before the Lord. In other words you throw your "mind" back and your "heart" forward with a true desire to receive all that the Lord would desire to give you. This is hard for many especially those who have a hard time receiving when giving is their comfort zone. Peter for example had a hard time receiving when Jesus began washing his feet, but Jesus told him that if you want to have any part of me Peter then you must receive this washing from me (this was a symbolic example of the blood of Jesus that is needed to wash our sins away), It was a truly humbling experience for Peter. Peter said I should be washing your feet Lord, do not wash mine. But when Jesus told him that if he did not receive this washing from Him then he could have no part of Him, it was at this point Peter whole-heartily received and said Lord don't just wash my feet but wash my hands and head also, in other words Peter was saying "wash me all over". That is the key that unlocks the treasure box in receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. One must be willing to humble himself and receive from the Lord "all" that the Lord would have to give him, and one must have the attitude as Peter did.. Do what you must Lord for I desire all that you would need to do unto me so that I may have "all" of you. If that is your attitude then you are open to the receiving of the Holy Spirit. Humble your self before the Lord, lift your hands, or prostrate yourself before the Lord, kneel, just present yourself humble physically as well as spiritually before the Lord your God and say here I am Lord wash me all over and baptize me with your Holy Spirit and fill me to overflowing, for I desire all of you and all you have to give me. I am yours Lord!



12 comments:

Tamela's Place said...

Thought i would share the comments i have been getting on this post that someone has been discussing with me via FB messaging

Comment:
How does one know if he has received the Holy Spirit since he has believed? Well now that we have established that believing and receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit are two different things let's take a look at God's Word and see how one can know.

Here is what I believe and if I misunderstood what you were saying please forgive me and let me know.

Scripture clearly says that when you believe your are filled with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 1:13-14 2 Cor. 1: 21-22 In the Scripture you posted on 1 Cor. 12:7-11 speaks of the Spiritual gifts given through the Holy Spirit but all believers are not given the same gift. That would be like the body having all legs or all ears. We are given different gifts to build up Christ's body, the church

Just wondering your thoughts on this. You asked in your post if anyone disagreed to let you know. :)

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply:
Not sure if you read the whole post or not but yes i did acknowledge the gifts of the spirit and to how each one is given a diff. gift.. As follows this was what I said in my post:

All these gifts, achievements, abilities are inspired and brought to pass by one and the same Holy Spirit, who apportions to each person individually exactly as He chooses. So, if you are a special messenger then you would be considered an Apostle, If you are an inspired preacher, expounder then you are a Prophet of God. Some are teachers, some are wonder workers, some are the healers with the gift of healing, others are helpers, administrators, speakers in different unknown tongues (1 Cor. 12:28 Amp.).

The scripture you refer to in Eph. is speaking of an outward sealing of the saints of God you will find this in Rev. also. We are all sealed once we have believed and will eventually make heaven our home. Sealed with the Promise of the Holy Spirit is not the same as being "filled" with the Holy Spirit. As i stated in my post when one is baptized/ filled with the Holy Spirit as the book of Acts speaks of then the operations of the gifts of the Spirit will manifest itself in that persons life whichever gift that may be that God chooses to give them.

I hope that helps you better understand.

as a side note i did make mention of strongly disagreeing with those who believe the operations of the gifts of the Spirit aren't for today but i didn't ask for them to tell me why or to let me know.. Not sure where you seen that at... But that's okay..

Tamela's Place said...

Comment:
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the popular teaching out there that when you repent and are baptized and believe upon the Lord Jesus Christ that you automatically receive the Holy Spirit?

I took this as you wanting people to let you know if they believed differently than you. This was what I was focused on mainly. The other scripture I referenced was 2Cor. 1:21-22 what is your take on this Scripture. I believe in my heart that the second I asked God to forgive my sins and believed that Jesus is my Saviour that the Holy Spirit came into my life. I couldn't do some of the things that I have done without the Holy Spirit. I have spoken boldly for Jesus, have taught children God's Word. I have not spoken in tongues but still I am filled with the Holy Spirit. I would love to have a peaceful discussion with you

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply:
ah.. okay i did put that in question form but it was more like a statement.. being that "is" the popular teaching, which most people will agree on..
My understanding on the scriptures you have referenced too is Paul speaking of himself, Timothy and Silas thats why he says us.. They have been established with the church in Christ, and they (Paul and Timothy have been anointed of God and given the earnest of the Spirit in thier hearts.

I would never dare say that you do not have the Holy Spirit. If you are speaking the Word of Jesus with boldness and you are teaching then you are indeed operating in one or more of the gifts of the Spirit. As i stated in my post, teaching and speaking boldly the word of God is an evidence that a person has the Holy Spirit in their life.

Tamela's Place said...

Comment:
Thank you Tammy for the discussion back and forth I truly appreciate it. So you are not saying that a person must speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Spirit? If that is the case then I misunderstood your post.

If the Holy Spirit is not indwelled in someone right from the beginning of salvation then I don't understand how a person could use the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

I do understand that many people do not use the gifts of the Holy Spirit provided them upon salvation. Maybe for fear or lack of knowing or not trusting God to work through them. I was like that for a very long time. Still am at times, but if I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me then I can overcome. Do you understand what I am trying to say? If the Holy Spirit does not come into your life when saved then what pulls you in the right direction, doing what God would have you do?

The Scripture in 2 Cor. includes the people Paul is writing to as well. Verse 21 says, "Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ." Don't you think he would include them in the next sentence too? If Paul is only including himself, Timothy and Silas in verse 22, then what is the purpose of writing the letter to the Corinthian church?

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply:
Right....No where did i say that a person must have the evidence of speaking in tongues before they are confirmed to be filled with the Spirit. I did say that a person that is filled with the Spriit will operate/manifest the gifts of the Spirit in thier lives whichever gift that may be.

Some may recieve the Holy Spirit at the time of salvation but some do not receive the Holy Spirit at salvation, this is why Paul asked the question have you received the Holy Spirit since you have believed? They answered and said no we have not heard of such a thing, that is when Paul laid hands upon them and they received the Holy Spirit. So for "some" who hear the word and beleive upon the Lord Jesus Christ and are saved do not recieve the Holy Spirit at that time. As I stated in my post the popular teaching is that once you hear the word and believe upon the Lord Jesus and are saved you automatically recieve the Holy Spirit (that's what i disagree with). What i am saying is that according to the book of Acts there are those who are beleivers but not yet filled with the Holy Spirit and the person who is not filled with the Holy Spirit does not operate in the gifts of the Spirit.

"A believer can be lead and guided by the Spirit but not be "filled" with the Spirit".

It's kinda like going from being parented to becoming a parent. Going from the milk to the meat. There are also many scriptures thru-out the New testament that speaks of this. Paul writes and speaks to some of the churches and tells them that they are not ready for the meat and or they could not understand the things of the Spirit because they had to be spiritually discerned. In other words to be spiritually discerning one must be filled with the Spirit. And if you look at the gifts of the Spirit, Spiritual discernment is one of them.

Now there are some that i believe were filled with the Spirit at one point or another in thier lives but do not operate in the gifts of the Spirit, in this case the person would be quenching or grieving the Spirit of God. Or... the gift needs to be stirred up in them again as in (2 Timothy 1:5-7) Paul is writing and tells him that he wants to stir the gift back up in him (Timothy) and lay his hands upon him. Somewhere along the way Timothy had been in a sense drifting away from operating in the gifts of the Spirit or maybe he was just growing weary, and Paul wanted to stir the gifts back up in him again.

To be established in this scripture means to be set over, just as your Pastor has been established by God to be your Pastor over you and to teach you, so has God established Paul and Timothy over the church of Corinth to teach, for they have been established with authority over the people. God has confirmed Paul and Timothy to be their teacher, to teach them and bring them into understanding. In Romans 1:11 the word established would be more of an example as what you are talking about to be set by beleif or to be set like a rock upon a solid foundation.

I hope this helps you.

Tamela's Place said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Tamela's Place said...

Comment:
In my first message I sent your way, I asked the question, "Do you really believe that receiving the Holy Spirit and being saved are two different things? Your title to the blog imparts this belief.

I did a cross reference on Eph. 1:13-14 which was one of the first verses I gave you and it took me to Eph. 4:30 which reads, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit with whom your were sealed for the day of redemption." This verse speaks of the person of the Holy Spirit not just an outward seal. Plus Eph. 1:13-14 also speaks of the Person of the Holy Spirit when the verse uses the pronoun who. In Rev. which you said was speaking of the same thing as Eph. the seal is an outward mark on the forehead. I don't see the two as being the same. I see Eph. 1:13-14 as the Holy Spirit coming in and residing in your heart.

In Acts when Paul asks the question, "Have ye received the Holy Spirit?" Then asked "Unto what then were you baptized?" They respond with "John's baptism." John's baptism was only for repentance of sin. John did not realize Jesus would send the Holy Spirit down from heaven, to all believers once they repented. In fact the Holy Spirit at the time of "John's baptism's" was not on the earth. Therefore the disciples went and laid hands on them and instructed them on the Holy Spirit.

I go back to 2 Cor. 1:21-22 which I believe are the verses you were talking about when in your last message to me, you wrote about Paul and Timothy being established with authority over the people. I do agree they were established over the church in Corinth but I don't feel these two verses speak of that. To me these verses are an encouragement to people. To stand firm in Christ, to know that they are God's people and to know that the Holy Spirit lives within them, guaranteeing their eternal life with God as well as helping them live the life they should.

I know you have established yourself with a Charasmatic viewpoint of the Bible. Please do not read into this as me saying that is wrong, in no way am I doing that. I'm just giving you a different viewpoint of these Scriptures. So I go back to my question, "Do you believe that believing in Jesus as your Saviour and receiving the Holy Spirit are two different things? That they happen at different times in your life? As I said before from the standpoint of your blog this is what comes across. In your messages to me you deal more on being filled with the Holy Spirit. We did agree that some people do not use the gifts of the Holy Spirit as they should, but producing the Fruit of the Spirit in one's life, in my opinion, is what God calls each believer to do. In producing the Fruit, we fulfill the greatest commandments of the Law of God which require us as believers to
" Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments" Matthew 22:37-40.

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply:
The viewpoint that you give is one that i am well aware and the same viewpoint that i stood on for many years because this was the viewpoint that was taught to me. My viewpoint is not Charismatic but my own experience and my own studies of the scriptures.

So yes... i still believe that they are two different things. We have had Biblical discussions before and it is very evident that you and i do not have the same understanding when it comes to the Scriptures. We are on different pages, not to say that one page is right and the other wrong, or one is better than the other. It's just simply different beliefs. I pray right now and i ask God that you and i can come to some common ground someday. In Jesus name amen!

We all have to walk our spiritual paths. But as i have said before i would not question someone who believes they have been filled with the Spirit. If a person is operating in the Gifts of the Spirit then they imo and scripture understanding have been filled with the Holy Spirit.

I am speaking of those who repeated a prayer of salvation, they got baptized and after that they were done. They don't have a desire to pray or study the Word and they will sit under people the the rest of their days as to only be taught by them and not taught by the Holy Spirit. I do not beleive that you are one of these people. But at the same time i do not question that persons salvation. They are babes in Christ and many of them will go to heaven being a babe in Christ.
1Cor. chapter 2 and 3 are examples of those even in the church today who believe that the giftings, teaching, revelations of the Spirit are meaningless/nonsense and who Paul refers to as babes in Christ who cannot accept and or understand the things of the Spirit because they have not the Spirit in them.

Just as in the day of Acts there are still "some" in the church today that when being filled with the Holy Spirit is brought to their attention and that there is such a thing, some at that point will desire to be filled. Once they understand and the desire is there to be "filled" then is when an experience of some kind will take place in that person's heart. For some it may take the laying on of hands, others may be "filled" in the privacy of their own closet as they pray for themselves believing and desiring God to give them all that He would give them and fill them with His Holy Spirit.

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply cont.:
I forgot to address this part of your message. "Truly" operating in the fruits of the Spirit can only be done by the power of the Spirit working in that person. There is alot of counterfiet fruit bearing sadly in our world today, it looks pretty on the outside but underneath it is rotten to the core. Many only act as tho they love as to get something in return. Kindness and gentleness alot of the time is shown because there is something to gain for themselves from that person. Self control is slim pickens. Joy is not the same as happiness. True love is known today as toleration and just make me feel good and conditional etc.... To truly operate in the fruits of the Spirit with no agenda is truly operating in the Spirit of God. If there is an agenda then this is operating in the spirit of the world bearing fake fruit that is rotten to the core. All believers should bear the true fruits of the Spirit no questions asked But God is not mocked and neither are those filled with the Spirit of God they can discern if someone's fruit is fake or not.

Also i acknowledge the common ground that we did see was that some that are filled with the Spirit can grieve or quench the Spirit, but if they are truly filled that won't last.

Tamela's Place said...

Comment:
I didn't see that in 1 Cor. chapter 2 and 3 about what Paul said can you explain.

Tamela's Place said...

My Reply:

I am quoting from the Amp. Bible because it gives the greek meanings to the words used.

1Cor.2:12-16 Now we have not received the spirit [that belongs to]the world, but the [Holy] Spirit (Paul is speaking of himself and the other apostles)Who is from God, [given to us] that we might realize and comprehend and appreciate the gifts [of divine favor and blessing so freely and lavishly] bestowed on us by God.(13)and we are setting these truths forth in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the [Holy] Spirit, combining and interpreting spiritual truths with spiritual language [to those who possess the Holy Spirit]. (14) But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to them; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated.(15) But the spiritual man tries all things [he examines, investigates, inquires into, questions, and discerns all things], yet is himself to be put on trial and judged by on one [he can read the meaning of everything, but no one can properly discern or appraise or get an insight into him]. (16)For who has known or understood the mind (the counsels and purposes of the Lord so as to guide and instruct Him and give Him knowledge? But we have the mind of Christ (the Messiah) and do hold the thoughts (feelings and purposes) of His heart. (Chapter 3)HOWEVER, BRETHREN, I could not talk to you as to spiritual [men], but as to nonspiritual (men of the flesh, in whom the carnal nature predominates], as to mere infants [in the new life] in Christ [unable to talk yet!](You can reference this verse back to 1Cor. 2:14) (Cont.1 Cor.3:2)I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not yet strong enough [to be ready for it]; but even yet you are not strong enough [to be ready for it],(3)For you are still [unspiritual, having the nature] of the flesh [under the control of ordinarty impulses]. For as long as [there are] envying and jealousy and wrangling and factions among you, are you not unspiritual and of the flesh, behaving yourselves after a human standard and like mere (unchanged) men?

Then Paul goes on to talk about how they do not discern/understand that their bodies should be the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit not the dwelling place for man (and this natural worldly wisdom and discernment for that is corrupt), thus the reason Paul speaks of teachers coming and building on a foundation other than the foundation of Christ Jesus. So let no one exult proudly concerning man, boasting of having this or that leader, for you are Christ's and Christ is God's